Debra Lynn Dadd

Fiberglass Insulation Problem

QUESTION:

Hello,

We are thinking of buying a 1920 house that has fiberglass insulation haphazardly placed throughout the attic. My husband wants to have the the new air conditioning ducts installed there. I am afraid that the workers will track it through the house or worse yet, get it into the air ducts while assembling it.

Should I be concerned that the house and the air ducks could become contaminated and how high is the probability that it would get contaminated? Should we consider removing all the old insulation before installing the duct system? I can't imagine that they would get it all out or possibly disperse more of the fibers in the living space while doing it.

I suggested to my husband that maybe we should just get a ductless system for upstairs and install the duck work in the basement for the first floor. The only problem with this is that it maybe cost prohibited and I won't be able to have the air filtration system going through there either.

The attic door (walk in) is located in the second floor guest bedroom. The first floor will be our primary living and sleeping area.

I have Multiple Chemical Sensitivities and it is imperative that I have a healthy environment. Can you offer us some suggestions?

Thank you for your help.
Cynthia

POSTED BY CYNTHIAK :: PA USA :: 12/14/2006 8:50 PM


DEBRA'S ANSWER:

I'm going to ask some experts to comment on this. Meanwhile, readers, what is your experience?

Debra :-)


COMMENTS:

My advice would be to vaccuum all the old insulation fibers before installing any ductwork on the attic. You see, the old fiber is heavy and normally will settle to the floor so it won't float like pollen to the whole house. This is how I cleaned out my own attic. It is easy to do by using your hand to scoop the up into plastic bags. Then the loosely left over can be vaccum up. That takes about 2-3 days of work. That way your home will be free of old insulation fibers. What to you think?

POSTED BY MIKET :: OR USA :: 12/19/2006 4:58 AM


Forgot to say one must wear a mask to protect oneself from the old insulation fiber when working around them or vacuuming them or cleaning them out. Good luck. My attic is now free of all fibers. Many old homes have them install in their attics. Not good idea but that was normal process during the old days. Real Estate agents always tell the home owners they are safe if not disturbed.

POSTED BY MIKET :: OR USA :: 12/19/2006 4:58 AM


Cynthia,

If you are concerned with the effects of fibreglass, and particualrly if you have MCS, you should get rid of it at best, or leave it undisturbed as a not so great compromise. Both the fibres themselves and the formaldehyde which goes into its manufacture are listed by the EPA as carcinogenic. The fibres, though larger than asbestos, have similar effects on the respiratory system over long term exposure. I personally believe it will not be long before it is regulated and feared as much as asbestos. And if it's haphazardly placed as you mention, it's probably not doing a great job of insulating.

That said, it is obvious that you should not be the one doing the removal, nor should you be on the property when it is done. The key to safe removal, or to create a safe environment if and when it is being disturbed, is to create air flow through the attic to the outdoors, so that no air flows from the attic into the house. This can be done relatively simply with a large fan, blowing out through a gable or roof vent. Wear long sleeves, a good mask (N90 minumum) gloves, and goggles, and stuff it into plastic bags. Vaccuum thoroughly, preferably with a HEPA filtered machine.

Of course it should be replaced, preferably by a non toxic cellulose loose fill, a safer mineral wool, or any of the other host of products available which I don't have space to list here.

Putting air conditioning ductwork in a hot attic means the ductwork itself should be insulated, so you don't spend $$$ cooling the attic. Consider using a "ductless split" system, which is more expensive, but far less space consuming. Putting the AC in the basement doesn't really work with the "warm air rises" principle.

That's all the space I have here, but you could email me through my website if you have any more questions.

POSTED BY SAGEDADDY :: SAGEDADDY GREEN BUILDING BLOG :: WHITINGDESIGN.BLOGSPOT.COM/ :: ONTARIO CANADA :: 01/02/2007 3:02 PM


I am a "Healthy Home" designer and builder. I build healthy homes for MCS clientel and understand your concerns.

The best solution is to get rid of the fiberglass insulation using hepa vacs and discharging ventilation to the work area during the removal process. Aso use proper protective clothing and breathing filtering devices. I would suggest hiring a subcontractor for this.

I suggest re-insulating with a water blown sray polyurethane foam insulation (SPF)in place of the fiberglass. I also suggest insulating the underside of the roof(not the attic floor). This will allow you to install the HVAC system (split system)in the attic area (within the envelope)with ease and function. Remenber the HEPA and carbonized filters (that you need)need to be serviced! So allow for accessability and function. This method will also allow the HVAC system to preform more efficiently.

I think the bigger question is, what kind of insulation is in the walls and basement?

POSTED BY MICHAEL GALELLO :: GALLO HOMES INC. :: WWW.GALLOHOMEDESIGN.COM :: MARYLAND USA :: 01/17/2007 8:34 AM


Can anyone tell me if Corbond Spray-in-place polyurethane insulation is safe (outside walls; denim scraps inside) with regards to off-gassing? I am very sensitive to chemicals (pesticides and herbicides mostly, but try to reduce all). Their website www.corbond.com has QA and claims there's no formaldehyde. Is there anything else here I should be concerned about? If so, what kind of outside wall insulation should I ask for when building a healthy, non-toxic house?

Thank you,

Klarisa C.

COMMENT FROM DEBRA: Well, it's hard to evaluate this from their website alone. It probably doesn't contain formaldehyde, but we don't know what their "environmentally friendly" ingredients actually are. Polyurethane is a petrochemical product. It's the same material used for many wood finishes. What makes it toxic or not as a wood finish is if it is oil-based or water-based. I'd need more information than they give to determine it's toxicity. Best would be to hear from someone who has experience with it.

POSTED BY KLARISA C. :: NC USA :: 09/10/2007 4:10 PM


I think that anyone who suffers from chemical-irritability should consider having their attics reinsulated with cotton batts. Cotton is made from recycled denim products and does not off-gas, nor is it unsafe to handle with bare hands or no respirator. It is more expensive though than fiberglass and cellulose, but what price are you willing to pay to have piece-of-mind? I would also recommend, prior to installing cotton, spraying the attic with mold/mildew resistant paint, and insulating all ductwork with two-part spray foam. Anyone in the Seattle area who is interested in hearing more about my recommendations can email me at: ericjfelton@yahoo.com.

POSTED BY ERIC J. FELTON :: WASHINGTON USA :: 02/11/2008 2:15 PM


Well, I suppose removing the fiberglass because it may be hazardous to you and anyone who lives in the house if it gets in your air duct system and blows out everywhere. I've toutched fiberglass without gloves, and it made me really itchey...and my aunt said it could be deadly if inhaled.

POSTED BY JAMIE LEE :: INDIANA USA :: 11/03/2008 4:33 PM


I have a question. How much impact does what is in the attic have? If it is something that can outgas, I can imagine that it could seep through the cracks into the house. However, if it is fiberglass, could that seep into the house? It seems that drywall ceilings are pretty tight against the walls, and things could not get into the house through that.
How concerned should I be about the fiberglass insulation in attic, if it is going to be left undisturbed?

Thanks

COMMENT FROM DEBRA: Fiberglass insulation should not seep into the house. The walls and ceilings should be tightly fitted and covered with tape and mud sufficient to form a barrier to particles of fiberglass. If there were a lot of formaldehyde outgassing from the insulation or other chemicals, that might come into the living area, as wallboard is not a sufficient barrier to gasses.

POSTED BY KJ :: FLORIDA USA :: 06/22/2009 7:15 PM


I have become sensitive to MMMF (man made mineral fibers) such as rockwool and fiberglass, so speak from experience on the impact of attics on house air quality. Although many builders or contractors will tell you that things are blocked off, unless the house was built following airtight standards like John Bower's Healthy House Institute describe, whatever is in the attic or wall cavities will infiltrate.

Hot air pushes towards cold, and will take whatever dust is there along with it. Rockwool and Fiberglass have particulate that is smaller than a micron -- easy for things this size to get around floorboards, etc. Attics get very hot, so that air will push towards the path of least resistance and bring whatever is there with it. Most people can tolerate these things, but sensitive types will have issues, whether they identify the source or not.

I am not a fan of plastics and other chemicals, but Mr. Galello's suggestion of HEPA vacuuming followed by a foam insulation that seals the air infiltration seems appropriate. I do not recommend a carbon filter though, as I've found ultra-fine particulate comes off this and is not all caught by a HEPA, and may cause issues for the most sensitive.

I have tried the cotton-batt insulation (ultra-touch by Bonded Logic), and have found it somewhat dusty and with an odor that may not be tolerable by some.

I definitely do not recommend cellulose insulation. It is very dusty, and the type sold at the home improvement stores has preservatives like ammonium sulfate on it that really contaminate the air quality.

POSTED BY ANTHONY :: OHIO USA :: 06/24/2009 3:24 PM


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